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Trying HHG for the first time.
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Author:  Rod True [ Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:13 am ]
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Well, seeing as most people here are using HHG and from the sounds of it, the guitar's are sounding a bit better from using it (Thanks Dave White) I thought I'd give it a go too.

It's going to take some getting use to the clean up in the go-bar deck and how long to wait till I clean up the squeeze out. Thankfully this is on a personal guitar which I'd still like to get all the squeeze out off, but doesn't matter all that much. It's all part of the learning curve.

Thanks to all who are using HHG and the continual encouragement for all of use to give it a try.

So here are a couple of pics.

In the hot pot at temp (got the hot pot for $1.50 works great)



And a couple of pics of the top bracing going on.







Thanks for looking. Any advise with anything regarding HHG is appreciated.
Author:  James Orr [ Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:39 am ]
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That's cool, Rod. I just glued some braces last night. I cleaned the
squeeze out after just about 15 minutes because I had to leave. I had
been waiting around an hour. It was easy both ways. I waiting until it
had gelled and scraped it off with my chisel. It was fun. It's like sticky
jello that just peels off.
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:45 am ]
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What james said Rod, you can also use a popsicle stick made sharp with sandpaper so you have wood to wood contactwhen peeling off and don't forget a warm damp rag for your fingers as well!

The beauty of HHG is that it crystalises and that ut can be taken apart with heat, just the best glue there is for our craft, very forgiving.

Way to go my brother and i love your hot pot!
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:49 am ]
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Welcome to the "dark side" Rod. Looks like you did it just fine from the squeezeout.

I always warm each brace before applying the glue and it seems to give more time to apply and position. Another trick is to "hand clamp" the braces until its natural tack takes over before applying the gobars. Until then, it's a bit slippery. Getting smacked in the face by a slipped gobar rod once taught me this lesson!

Good luck and feel free to ask questions as you progress.

Author:  Dave White [ Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:01 am ]
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Rod,

Easy clean up is one of the great things about hhg. As the guys have said just leave it for about 10 minutes and then peel it off. This leaves a clean surface but if there are still traces you can clean these off with a paper towel soaked in warm water. Just be careful with this and have the pieces still clamped/go barred. I once got too zealous on a back and "unglued" a centre seam around a brace

I was sceptical about the claims of hhg on sound and thought that most builders who use it switch at a certain point of their building learning curve and were producing better sounding guitars anyway. But I think there is a gain - particularly using it on braces and for gluing the bridge.

The only down-side I have with hhg is that it can irritate my eczema and I have to go wash my hands after I get any on them. Good building habit I suppose anyway.

The cedar/maple guitar is looking good, I'll be interested to see how it turns out sound-wise. Mine just gets better and better.
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:25 am ]
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Hesh, of course, we want pics, err,,..on second thought, might want to forget about that, Billy might use that against you!
Author:  Rod True [ Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:23 am ]
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Hesh my Friend, that is tooooooooo funny. I'll be sure to try that out at your place next time I'm there, we can both chase Lacey around the house   

Thanks for all the help with the clean up guys, that will help for the remainder of the bracing.

I did heat up each piece with the heat gun, nice and warm against my cheek is how I checked it (the norther cheek, not the southern cheek, lets not get cheeky )
Author:  Alain Desforges [ Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:40 pm ]
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Rod, right on! This is a move you won't regret.

One little caveat though, when (if) you're cleaning up with a damp rag, be sure not to lay down too much moisture near a glue joint. If you ever need to wipe something near a joint, make sure to have a blow dryer handy to immediately dry up the area... (Thanks Mario)
It doesn't take much moisture to seep into the joint and compromise it... To be safe, I always use dry rags anyhow, unless I'm trying to play at being Mr. Clean...

Oh, and it's true that HHG is reversible, but that's much easier if the joint is very fresh... I you wait for it to cure completely (say, more than 24 hours) you're going to have to generate a LOT of heat to undo a joint. I think Mr. Ford tried a little experiment on frets.com... Alain Desforges39054.0313078704
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:52 pm ]
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Hey bro, how did it go? sticky eh?
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:53 pm ]
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How many nose droppings did you collect?
Author:  Rod True [ Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:05 pm ]
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Thanks for the tips Serge and Alain re: the moist cloth.

Serge, this stuff is soooooo sticky. I like it.

In your thread on HHG, JJ mentioned that making the glue thicker will increase the open time, does this marginally decrease the strength (I'm not really worried about this, just currious is all).

If not, I think using it thicker would ease the "stress" of the working time if always used at a thicker consistency.

My glue was thick I'd say. It made a nice thick bead on the brace right out of the bottle.

Man this stuff is hard when cured. Way harder than PVA glues.

Thanks again guys (Serge and JJ) for your patience with me and my questions as I learn to use HHG. You rock.
Author:  Rod True [ Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:06 pm ]
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This is going to be fun trying it on the top joint and bridge as well Rod True39054.0880439815
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:53 pm ]
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Rod, i would not think that if made thick that it will decrease it's strength, just check those drops once dried and how glassy hard they become, i personaly think that HHG will outlast any glues anytime.

One thing that happened to me on no 2 had me convinced, my glue was thinner to join a top and after only a few minutes, i accidently grabbed the top by one corner and lifted it up to install it under weight(not much thinking there, newbie talking ) and realized that both plates of the top were already stiff even if not fully cured, i thought WOW, that sucks big time!

Gotta try running after my wife with that stuff hanging out of...well! Try to get that stuff out of your fur for a change!

Cheers bud!
Author:  Billy T [ Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:52 pm ]
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[quote=The Mucous Master]The finale of course is to then, in full view of your victim, eat the dangling HHG.........    [/QUOTE]

Poor Lacey!    

[QUOTE=Safe-n-Sane Serge]Hesh, of course, we want pics, err,,..on second thought, might want to forget about that, Billy might use that against you! [/QUOTE]

I already have pix, you want to see?Billy T39054.2058796296
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:23 am ]
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[QUOTE=Sneaky Snake Billy T wrote] [quote=The Mucous Master]The finale of course is to then, in full view of your victim, eat the dangling HHG.........    [/QUOTE]

Poor Lacey!    

[QUOTE=Safe-n-Sane Serge]Hesh, of course, we want pics, err,,..on second thought, might want to forget about that, Billy might use that against you! [/QUOTE]

I already have pix, you want to see?[/QUOTE]

I knew you were not far you paparazzi you!
Author:  Alain Desforges [ Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:53 am ]
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Yeah Rod, from the looks of your squeeze out, that bead was probably perfect.   Just a nice little amount of overflow all the way around. You should of seen my first attempts... I glued myself to my shop floor a few times!

I know a lot is said about he short working time, but when you think of it, it doesn't take an eternity to put glue on a brace and then hold it down... I think the main thing is not to disturbe the joint once it has started to gel. If it's started gelling and you accidentaly move it, you'll hear it separate; that's what you don't want. When that happens to me, I take it appart, clean up with a damp rag, dry the area with the blow dryer (I'm very retentive when it comes to this) and then I'll start over again. The stuff is unbelievably forgiving...

It does dry super hard, eh? Fish glue dries about the same but you have 1 hour + of open time... However, on the bottle (fish), it says that the glue joint is succeptible to water. Not humidity, water... I try to take this into consideration when I bring my guitars SCUBA diving!
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:42 am ]
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Rod...To clarify what I said about thicker HHG. It does not increase open time. It reduced my APPLICATION time since I can now apply the glue to the rims in 10 seconds rather than 30 seconds for 2 people to brush on the glue. Looks like you did just fine with the braces.

Hesh...I love the snot imagery you described! Can't wait for Billy to commemorate this event.
Author:  Rod True [ Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:04 am ]
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Ok got it.

Thanks again guys, glad to have joined the snot club indead.

Hesh, you really eat this stuff? I guess it's just like steak if you think hard enough
Author:  Rod True [ Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:48 pm ]
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So I was at it again tonight getting the rest of the braces glued down on the sound board and I'm really liking using hide glue. This stuff is soooooooo sticky and really really hard when cured.

The other thing that is cool is that it sure seems to take less glue. I made this little bottle of glue up and glued down all the top braces and the bridge plate and really hardly used anything. Maybe I'm just learning how to put on the right size bead though

Here's some more pics, and thanks for the clean up help folks, worked like a charm.







Author:  Rod True [ Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:51 pm ]
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And tomorrow I get to start shaving the braces, I love that part.
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:04 pm ]
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Great job and very neat also Rod, i think you'll stick with HHG eh? My first pun intended, really!

Oh i love shaving braces too bud, did your wife agree on the Lee Valley's instrument maker's little jewel of a small beautiful plane yet???

If not, i'll give her a serious call bro!

Cheers!
Author:  Rod True [ Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:36 pm ]
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We'll have to wait till Christmas Serge.

You'd love my list though, it's one stop shopping at Lee Valley

Oh, and yes I think I'll be sticking with hide glue, going to try many other joints with it as well. First the top, than the head plate on the head stock, than finaly the bridge and fretboard extension.

I like the CA method for the bindings though so that won't change.
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:20 pm ]
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That's cool bro, Lee Valley is my favorite store and i just love their HHG BTW! As soon as i enter the store, i start dreaming of having all the nice planes, chisels, clamps, their awesome workbench, their fantastic....oh man, i am having a serious LV TAS attack!

So that's my story and i'm stickin' to it !
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